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  • In Titans Hunt, Donna Troy was clearly meant to be the same character who appeared in Finch's run (she wore the same costume), and she has stayed around in the Rebirth Titans series. In Titans Annual Vol 3 1, Wonder Woman refers to Donna Troy's backstory from Meredith Finch's run. The problem with this is that the versions of the Amazons and Themiscyra seen in that run (and Brian Azzarello's run) was revealed in Greg Rucka's Rebirth Wonder Woman run to be an illusion. When Diana discovered this, the fake Themiscyra and fake Amazons faded away in front of her. Why is Donna even still around? She was from that version of Themiscyra. I don't read Red Hood and the Outlaws but I have similar questions about its portrayal of Artemis. Does it refer to Artemis appearances from the New 52 era, and create similar continuity problems?

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    • I just realized that Donna might still be around because she was made from clay, and while the witch who made her out of clay may have been an illusion, the clay itself was real. I still have questions about Artemis, and also about when exactly Donna got her fake memories. Also, how was it possible for Donna to have a career as Wonder Girl (something seen in several of Dan Abnett's flashbacks in Titans and Titans Hunt)?

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    • Donna Troy is not supposed to make sense.

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    • Tupka217 wrote: Donna Troy is not supposed to make sense.

      This made me laugh! Thank you. I get that Donna is infamous for frequently getting new backstories. But I understood all of her various pre-Flashpoint portrayals just fine. None of them seemed to me to create plot holes. At the bare minimum, I'm asking if someone knows how she has a Teen Titans career as part of her current backstory even though Dan Abnett is upholding her Meredith Finch origin (which took place in a then present-day story set long after Abnett's Titans flashback scenes).

      And even if Donna must be incomprehensible (which I don't believe to be true) could someone who reads Red Hood and the Outlaws (the Rebirth series) answer my questions about Artemis' portrayal there?

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    • I suspect that the real-life reason for this is that Dan Abnett hasn't read the Rebirth Wonder Woman series. But I'm asking about in-universe explanations.

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    • Artemis didn't appear in the New 52. And, as shown in her backstory in RHATO, she is also not from Themyscira but Bana-Mighdall, so she would probably not have been affected by the fake Themyscira. Diana and her know each other, but were not sisters.

      Donna does have a Teen Titans career as part of her current backstory, I remember there have been numerous flashbacks of her as Wonder Girl and a Teen Titan in the current Titans book. I'm guessing her current origin is just similar to the Finch version, but not exactly the same.

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    • Ver-mont wrote: I'm guessing her current origin is just similar to the Finch version, but not exactly the same.

      Thank you. This is a pretty good answer.

      Ver-mont wrote: Artemis didn't appear in the New 52.

      I remember her appearing in Batman and Robin: The Hunt for Robin, which had Batman visiting the Azzarello/Finch version of Themiscyra for one issue. I suppose the Artemis in RHATO is simply not that Artemis (which makes sense, since that Artemis was an illusion). Thanks!

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    • Are you sure that wasn't Aleka? She's a New 52 character who's pretty similar to Artemis.

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    • Yeah, Artemis had no pre-Rebirth appearances. Aleka appears in Batman and Robin (Volume 2) #30.

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    • Wow. You're right. My mistake! I thought for sure that was Artemis.

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    • Tomfull.i wrote: I suspect that the real-life reason for this is that Dan Abnett hasn't read the Rebirth Wonder Woman series. But I'm asking about in-universe explanations.

      The problem there is there is no clue as of yet on how far the changes of Action Comics #978 extend through Prime Earth history. We do know that it changed Batman's and Wonder Woman's recent history slightly.

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    • "[writer] hasn't read [Wonder Woman's title]" is the entire reason Donna Troy exists in the first place.

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    • Tupka217 wrote: "[writer] hasn't read [Wonder Woman's title]" is the entire reason Donna Troy exists in the first place.

      Well, yeah, but that was in the 1960s. It was a different time. Generally speaking, we have a higher standard for continuity in the 21st Century.

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    • Wonder Woman and Captain Marvel would like to disagree.

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    • Tomfull.i wrote:

      Tupka217 wrote: "[writer] hasn't read [Wonder Woman's title]" is the entire reason Donna Troy exists in the first place.

      Well, yeah, but that was in the 1960s. It was a different time. Generally speaking, we have a higher standard for continuity in the 21st Century.

      You're being sarcastic, right? I mean since Crisis on Infinite Earth back in 1986 we have seen two main reboots and at least four minor reboots of the main DCU.

      Heck if you think about how hypertime supposedly works it effectively takes continuity and beats it up, shoves it in a trash can, and then kicks it down the stairwell of a 100 story building.

      Convergence made things even more of a mess as we are ask to somehow someway fit the idea that 128 realities were brought back and there are only 52 different realties in the "normal" multiverse together.

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    • A reboot is not a continuity error. Generally speaking, today we don't expect comics that are published simultaneously to contradict each other.

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    • Tupka217 wrote: Wonder Woman and Captain Marvel would like to disagree.

      Is there some problem with Captain Marvel/Shazam continuity I'm not aware of? Yes, Billy Batson's had several reboots, but a reboot is not a continuity error! I've never had trouble understanding which incarnation one of Billy's stories is from.

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    • The Power of Shazam was generally ignored. It became a mess after that.

      A big problem of that series though is not Billy, but Bulletman. PoS established he survived and Bulletgirl died. Seven Soldiers: Bulleteer.... said the complete opposite.

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    • This is pretty interesting for me. Please explain more, if it isn't too much trouble. By The Power of Shazam are you referring to the OGN (which I haven't read) or the ongoing that followed it? I read a few issues of the ongoing (they were collected in Shazam! A Celebration of 75 Years) but other than that I'm not familiar with 90s Capt. Marvel. I haven't read Grant Morrison's Seven Soldiers. How was The Power of Shazam ignored?

      An aside: My favourite Captain Marvel stories are the pre-Crisis Bronze Age ones which I discovered in Superman vs. Shazam and Shazam! A Celebration of 75 Years, plus the Multiversity and Convergence stories which were deliberately retro. I'm not very familiar with Post-Crisis Captain Marvel because DC has hardly collected those stories at all.

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    • The ongoing. The GN was itself a retcon/reboot of A New Beginning.

      My favorite Captain Marvel story is still First Thunder.

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    • Tupka217 wrote: My favorite Captain Marvel story is still First Thunder.

      I like that one too. It's easily Judd Winick's best Captain Marvel work

      How many things from the Power of Shazam ongoing were ignored afterward?

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    • Tupka217 wrote: The ongoing. The GN was itself a retcon/reboot of A New Beginning.

      Speaking of A New Beginning, it's getting reprinted soon. Would you recommend it?

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    • My memory is hazy, but I seem to recall Bulletman, Fawcett City's location, Theo Adam, Sivana's kids and minor Fawcett characters

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    • Where is Fawcett City? (How many locations has it had?) What happened to Theo Adam, Sivana's kids, and minor Fawcett characters? I'm sorry if I get annoying by asking so many questions. It's just that I'm thrilled to find someone who's read a series I'm curious about.

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    • It's been a long time ago. The issues I have are in a box somewhere.

      It was Wisconsin (or at least, the Eastern shore of Lake Michigan) consistently. Then it was later placed in Minnesota and Indiana. And there are people who say it was California too, but I haven't seen a source for that.

      Ibis and Spy Smasher later had their legacies revisited, which ignored the events of the series. Same for Beautia, Georgia and Thaddeus Jr. - she was just reintroduced in 52 as if she was a wholly new version.

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    • Thank you for answering my questions! I had never heard of any of this before. What happened in 52 could probably be attributed to Infinite Crisis changing the past. If there's ever another Shazam ongoing it will be interesting to see if the writer shows any interest on pinning down Fawcett City's location.

      Do you think DC will reprint Power of Shazam, what with the movie in the works? If you've read Roy Thomas' A New Beginning, would you recommend it?

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    • Actually, both the creation and changes in the local 52 multiverse have been put into the Hypertime box per The Multiversity Guidebook #1.

      As for A New Beginning, it was interesting but DC though better of that origin and did another one in Power of Shazam to the point that they eventually put A New Beginning on Earth-85 (along with several other things that didn't make sense with New Earth continuity).

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    • Why exactly did DC decide to replace A New Beginning with the OGN? I haven't read either.

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    • I have no idea regarding the why as I only read A New Beginning (which I barely remember) and enough of the Power of Shazam series to realize they had hit the reset button (and I don't remember anything other then that).

      I do have a theory, everyone at DC had to know Zero Hour was coming down the pipe and someone felt the Captain needed a reboot. To test the waters the OGN came out March 1994 and based on sales became the foundation of the series which started March 1995.

      IMHO the only reason the ANB Captain Marvel is part of Earth-85 is Zero Hour was in Sept 1994.

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    • I finally got my hands on the New Beginning hardcover today. I loved the Action Comics Weekly story at the back, with Billy infiltrating a neo-Nazi camp and foiling their plans. The miniseries itself was... okay. Not perfect.

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